A Different Life: Overcoming Suicidal Thoughts And Abusive Relationships With Joie Lilly Cheng

A Different Life: Overcoming Suicidal Thoughts And Abusive Relationships With Joie Lilly Cheng

Have you ever felt that you don’t belong here or anywhere else? Is it because of how you look and feel about yourself or how you compare yourself with family members? How would this view impact the way you see the world? Our guest, Joie Lilly Cheng, will share her journey and lessons that she had learned to overcome suicide thoughts and abusing relationships, to now become a book publishing coach and a Yoga teacher. Joie believes that when we share our stories, we heal ourselves and we heal the world. She is the best-selling author of The Naked Truth: A Woman’s Journey to Self-Love.

Welcome to the show, Joie. Please share with us your story, where you’re from, at what age that you noticed that you are different from other Asians, and how was it like to grow it up here in America? 

Thank you for having me on the show, Kimchi. I’m so excited to be here with you. My story started when I was in my twenties. I went through a dark period in my life. I was depressed and I even had suicidal thoughts. It was a very difficult, sad, and dark time in my life, but it was also very confusing because I had nothing that had happened in my life, anything on the outside that would make it seem like I should feel that way. It wasn’t like I had a traumatic breakup or had lost somebody close to me. Everything on the outside in my life seemed good. I had a good job. I had good friends and family that cared about me. I had a boyfriend that cared about me, and so everything seemed good, but something was missing in my life.

I didn’t feel happy and I realized later that the reason I felt that way was because I didn’t love myself and I also wasn’t living my purpose. That’s a big part of my story. It’s going through that experience and then I was an abusive relationship too. That’s when I realized I didn’t love myself. I needed to learn to love myself and so I ended that relationship. I decided I needed to love myself and then the universe started bringing opportunities to help me do that. I’m from Chicago originally. I was born in New York and then moved to North Carolina, but pretty much from the time I was four all the way through high school and into college, I stayed in Illinois for college and grad school as well, so I grew up in Chicago.

I don’t think I can think of the exact age when I remember feeling like I was different. My family is from Taiwan and I am the first generation in my family. My sister is the oldest but she was born in Taiwan, and so I’m the first sibling and the first person in my family that was born in America. It was definitely different because I felt like growing up in America, I definitely feel very connected to the American culture, but I also have the connection to the Taiwanese culture. In some ways, I always felt like I didn’t fit in either culture. I felt like I didn’t fit into the Taiwanese culture because I was almost too American for the Taiwanese culture, but I also was too non-American for the American culture in a way. In some ways, I felt like I never fit into either culture, but the nice thing too is I felt like because I was born or raised in both cultures that I could appreciate both cultures and then take the good from each culture for myself and not have to feel like I can only adopt the American culture or adopt the Taiwanese culture, but that I can blend the two.

Who or what has shaped you to become the person you are today? 

My story definitely influenced me as well. Everything that I’ve been through has shaped who I am. I was never close to my mom. I was always a daddy’s girl. I was also not close to my sister because my sister and I have always been different and my mom and I, as well and my dad and I, were more similar. That helped me. It brought me to my women’s circles that I used to facilitate and the women’s work that I used to do because I felt like I didn’t have that connection to my sister, that close connection that I wanted. I had that missing sisterhood in my life.

I had some wounding with my mom where I never felt like I got the emotional support that I wanted from her. I wouldn’t be on the path that I’ve been on if it wasn’t for that. If I had the affection and the emotional support from her, then I wouldn’t be on this path. Sometimes, it is what we don’t receive from our parents or from other people in our life that can put us on the path we’re on. I would say my mom and my dad had been significant people in my life in shaping who I am and what I received from them and not received.

Did your parents get along well in their marriage? 

No, they got divorced when I was between eighteen. There was a lot of yelling during that time. It wasn’t a very peaceful, pleasant divorce and I don’t remember seeing them ever kiss or hold hands or anything. That’s probably also maybe a cultural thing but in some ways, I don’t even know what I missed out on. I know I had the fantasy that I wanted my parents to get back together but then as soon as I got older, I realized that I’m grateful that it happened because unless they could have been together and been peaceful, I wouldn’t want them to stay together and be fighting all the time. It’s not an environment for a child to grow up in. I didn’t see them being loving and affectionate with each other. In some ways, it’s better. I didn’t know what I missed out because all I ever saw was the fighting before they split up. They definitely didn’t get along until after they got divorced. They didn’t see each other a lot. If they ever did, then there will be fights around money and stuff. They didn’t get along.

Who did you stay with after the divorce? 

My mom had sole custody. Back then, it was uncommon for the dad to get the kids, unless the mom was an alcoholic or drug addict or something. My dad had fought for joint custody but my sister and I said we wanted to stay with our dad and our brother said he wanted to stay with our mom. They didn’t want to split the kids up so they put us all with our mom, but we spent every other weekend and one night a week with our Dad, so he was definitely still involved in our life. He would be the one to take us to school a lot and pick us up and definitely active in our life, but we were primarily with our mom.

It’s so hard to hear that parents are fighting all the time and they could not resolve it. Did you think that’s because of their core value or is that their personalities are different? What do you think might be the cause? 

My parents had a pretty unique situation. My dad was transgendered. My parents both passed away, that’s why I say was but he was born in a male body but with a female mind. I believe that my mom didn’t know that when she married him. I never talked to my mom about it because I wasn’t that close with my mom, but my dad and I talked about pretty much everything. I did talk to my dad and he told me that he would wear her clothes before they got married and after they got married, it seemed like she was okay with it. Even after they had my sister, my brother and I, their kids, it seemed like my mom was okay with it. Then when we got older, my mom was trying to be protective of us and so she didn’t want my dad to wear women’s clothes anymore because she was worried that our friends would come over and think something was weird or make fun of us. She didn’t want us to get hurt, and so she told him that he couldn’t do that anymore. That’s when the issues started happening because he felt like he couldn’t be himself. He couldn’t express himself, and he ended up getting surgery around when I was eight, nine. He spent a year in New Jersey and he would come back and visit us, but he would play the woman role and he would wear women’s clothes and makeup and hair, curled hair and permed.

Overcome Suicidal Thoughts: Regardless of what type of abuse you’re going through, find a way to get out of that relationship.

He looked good as a woman and I still have pictures and remember him in that role. He spent a year doing that and then he came back to Chicago and he asked our mom if he could have another year and she said no. That’s when she filed for divorce. He played that role as a woman for a little longer. I don’t remember exactly how many years when he switched back. He ended up switching back to being a man again, but he didn’t get the surgery again. He just wore men’s clothes and he had his hair short and obviously wasn’t wearing makeup and stuff. He looked like a man again.

It was interesting because I was closest to our dad of the three kids. Every time that I would come back from spending time with our dad, she would ask me, “Is he a man or a woman now?” When I would say that he’s a man, she never said anything, but I could tell that she was confused. In her mind, she was probably thinking, “If he’s going to go back to being a man, why did he go through that whole process? Why did he put our family through everything?” I thought for a long time that she never forgave him for the divorce, but later on, I realized that she regretted divorcing him. She never forgave herself because my dad said that she did love him and even though I never saw that, she must have loved him because she did marry him even though her parents didn’t approve of him either. She maybe regretted divorcing him.

For him, it wasn’t about being a man or a woman. It was just being himself. It was the discovery and that journey he was on, so it was a very unique situation. When my dad would talk to me about it, I could understand where my mom was at in her position because I can only imagine if I was with somebody, with my husband, and then he decides to be a woman even though maybe I already knew that that was who he was, it’s definitely not an easy thing to do, and so I never blamed my mom for that. We had a very unique situation.

It is hard to be on both your parents’ shoes until we are actually in it. It’s hard to guess what they think and how they feel about it. Seeing your mom and dad like that, did it affect you at all in the way that you look at gay and lesbian or transgender? Are you more open minded? Are you more compassionate about these people? 

He was my dad, so I just saw him as my dad. It didn’t matter to me if he was a man or a woman, if he was playing either role, he was still my dad and I loved him for who he was. I wrote a book. In my book, I talk about how he used to pick me up as a woman when I was a kid during those years when he was playing that woman role. I would tell my friends that he was my aunt because I didn’t want to get made fun of. There was that piece of wanting to protect myself and maybe some shame there, but also just between him and I, I didn’t have any shame around him and I did see him as my dad and love him as my dad regardless of which role he played. To be honest, I don’t know that I do feel more comfortable around gays or transgender because of that. It’s more just who he is and for me, I do know people that are gay and transgendered, but it’s more of how much experience or familiarity maybe with people like that too because I haven’t had a lot of people that I hang out with. I don’t really hang out with people that are gay or transgendered regularly except for my dad. He’s the only person that I had that much contact with and experience with. I don’t think that it’s helped me that much. It’s more about your personal experience and the people that you spend time with.

Was it a reason for you to feel depressed when you were growing up? You mentioned that when you were about twenty years old, you felt depressed. Was it one of the reasons that caused it? 

No, I don’t think that it had anything to do with my parents’ divorce or my dad. It was part of my path and my purpose and for me to be able to come here to teach and to embody self-love, that I had to go through the experience where I wasn’t loving myself, finding myself in an abusive relationship and other relationships that I had been in where I wasn’t happy but I was afraid to be alone. That went back to when I was a kid and my parents were going through the divorce. There was one time that they were arguing about something and my mom called the police and had my dad leave. I didn’t even realize until later when I was an adult and I was in those relationships with men that I had this fear of being abandoned by men. I think it was because of my dad getting taken away by the police when I was a kid. I was close to my dad so I may have thought it was my fault. It was a scary experience for a little girl to have her dad leave and get taken away. I had to work through those issues around the fear of being left by a man and fear of being alone. It was a part of my own path.

Do you have any suggestion for other women if they find themselves in an abusive relationship? 

The first thing is to realize that it’s not your fault. I was grateful for my experience because when I went through that, I knew that it wasn’t about me. I don’t know why, but I had this awareness that it wasn’t about me. It wasn’t like it didn’t make sense for what I had done or said, so I knew that it wasn’t about me. We found out while we are together, his mom admitted that she threw him against a wall as a baby, she abused him as a baby and he didn’t know that because he was less than a year old or so. He was literally a baby so he had no idea that that had happened on a conscious level. He found out while we were together that she had done that. Then he had other women that had taken advantage of him that would go out with him and when the bill would come, then they would leave. They would be using him for free food, for a meal.

It’s all this anger from previous experiences with women that he was projecting onto me and into our relationship That’s definitely the first thing. Remember that it’s not your fault because it can be easy as women for us to internalize, to think, “I must be doing something wrong,” or “Something’s wrong with me,” and then it’s damaging because we’re taking that on versus realizing that this doesn’t have anything to do with you, that this is about the other person and their stuff. That would be the first thing I would say. Remember that it’s not your fault, depending on what you’re going through.

For me, it didn’t escalate to physical abuse thankfully, or sexual, it was emotional. Although a lot of times, they say that it can start emotionally. Definitely regardless of what type of abuse you’re going through, find a way to get out of that relationship. Find a safe place that you can go and have that courage to leave that relationship. It’s not easy. I know that it’s easy on the outside that people cannot understand why you’re in that relationship. I talked to my friends while I was in that relationship and I know they were like, “Why are you with this guy? You’re amazing and you deserve better,” but it’s easy when you’re not in the relationship to think that way and maybe even to think that it could never happen to you, but when you’re in it, then it’s different.

I don’t think any person in the world has only negative qualities. We all have positive and negative. My abusive boyfriend had positive things about him and positive things about our relationship. I was also emotionally attached. There was an attachment there, so it wasn’t an easy thing and we were together four and a half years on and off. We kept breaking up and getting back together to the point where I would never sometimes even remember if we were together or broken up.

What helped me too was I ended up going to this seminar for the healing work, the energy healing that I do with my clients sometimes. It’s called Matrix Energetics. It helped me see things in the world differently, to open myself up to different possibilities. I realized that there were things and there were beliefs that I had that were limiting myself, that were putting conditions on my happiness. I had a couple beliefs specifically. I had one belief where I thought, “If I just got married, I’d be happier,” or “If I was single, I’d be miserable.” I started questioning those beliefs. I said, “How do I know that getting married is going to make me happier because I’m sure there are a lot of people unfortunately that are married that are not happy?” There’s a 50% divorce rate in our country. I’m sure that that’s the case.

Then I said, “How do I know that being single is going to make me miserable? What if being single was the best thing that I ever did?” Just by flipping those beliefs, it created space for a different possibility. It gave me the courage to finally end that relationship, to realize that I needed to end it and learn how to be okay with being single and learn how to love myself because I had gone from one relationship to another, had been in long-term relationships and had stayed in those relationships because I was afraid of being alone and I wasn’t happy, but I was afraid of being alone so I would stay in them and then literally just go from one to the next.

Then I realized I need to learn to be single, and to be happy being single. I’m not going to get into another relationship unless I want to get to know that person, not because I’m afraid of being alone, not because of anything that they can give me or do for me because. There were times where I wasn’t happy with where I lived, so I would be like, “There’s a guy who has this nice place and I can hang out at his place.” It’s almost like there was something I was getting from that relationship besides being with this person. When I made that decision, the next guy that I dated, that relationship was so different, and I think it was a lot of it had to do with my energy that I brought into that relationship.

Before you were able to change those beliefs, are the guys that you were dating with very similar? In the way that they treat you, are they similar? 

No, I only had the one guy that was abusive. I dated two other guys before that and they were both great guys. They treated me well. It was just the one. I can’t honestly even remember what he said because I just blocked it out, but I know there were definitely abusive things that he would say to me and just the way he acted. He would flirt with women in front of me and not treat me the way that any woman deserves to be treated.

I know that you wrote a book, The Naked Truth. Can you share with us what this book is about? 

The book is called The Naked Truth: A Woman’s Journey to Self-Love. It’s about my journey to self-love. It’s my life story up until this point when the book came out. I talk about a lot of lessons that I’ve learned about self-love and the different stories in my life, how I learned those lessons. I also have journaling questions and I have seven practices that I share in my book, which helped me cultivate a deep sense of self love and have helped my clients as well. That’s why I also share my book. It’s cool because you get to go through your own journey of self-love while reading about my journey.

The Naked Truth: A Woman’s Journey to Self-Love

How can somebody know that they don’t love themselves enough? 

For me, it was being in that relationship. When I was in that abusive relationship, I realized I didn’t love myself. To be honest, I had no idea that I didn’t love myself until I was in that relationship. It was at that point when I said to myself, “I must not love myself because if I did, I wouldn’t be in this relationship and I wouldn’t continuously be in this relationship,” because I had to look at myself and realize that that was something that I needed to learn how to do. A lot of us aren’t taught to love ourselves. We’re not modeled that, and so that is something that we can learn how to do. I’m not sure how somebody would know that. We all are intuitive, so that, on some level, if we don’t really love ourselves, we do know that.

There are a lot of different pieces to self-love. Sometimes we hear the word but we don’t know exactly what it means. Self-care, to me it’s a piece of self-love, like getting a massage, doing good things for yourself, working out, taking care of your body, eating healthy, those are all aspects, but that’s not self-love by itself. Self-love is an internal and external thing. Those things are the external expression of it, but there are things that are just how you feel about yourself. On the inside, that’s, where it begins. I think that for me, doing those things, like getting a massage, those things are great to do, but if you do those things but you don’t love yourself, you’re still telling yourself negative things, looking at yourself in the mirror and just focusing on all the negatives, you don’t love yourself. It’s both. It’s more complex than what we might think.

In your book, you will show ways to have more love, show more love to ourselves, doing the self-love. 

There are seven practices that I share in my book. One of their practices, I already talked about. It was the one about when I talked about those beliefs that I had. It’s something that I call a Jedi mind trick. It’s like a super power because it’s a simple thing to do but it’s also very powerful. You take any belief that you have, any limiting belief that you have, and you just say, “How do I know?” and then you say the belief. “How do I know that this is true?” You don’t have to know the answer to that, which is cool. You have to ask the question and by asking the question, trust that the answer is going come up and show up for you. Just asking the question creates a possibility for something different, to not be so focused on that limiting belief. That’s the law. That’s the truth. I’m sure you know that our thoughts create our reality. Nothing’s true except for what you believe is true. If you believe something’s true, then it is true for you, and if you believe it’s not true, then it isn’t true, so we can get so stuck in our beliefs and thinking, “This is just the way it is,” but if you start questioning and going, “How do I know? How do I know that that’s the way it is? Why do I think it’s the way it is?” Then we can realize that maybe it’s not just the way it is.

Is it the same as Katie Byron and The Work? Is it similar?

I’ve heard of Katie Byron and The Work, I’m not familiar with doing it. I haven’t done it, so I can’t speak.

She has two simple questions too, “How do I know if it is true?” and something like, “Do I absolutely know that it is true?” She has a similar question but I believe that your story is much more in-depth. What will you not compromise or tolerate in your life right now? 

I definitely stand up for myself a lot more than I used to. Just because of my journey of self-love. I don’t put up with being disrespected, abusive behavior. Even if there’s something that I feel isn’t right isn’t, like for example, there is a program that I did and I wasn’t happy. They were supposed to create a video for me and I wasn’t happy with the way the video turned out. I had a conversation with the CEO of the company about it and he handled it well and is doing his best to make up for it. I said, “I have to be honest. This is not what I thought I was going to be. This is not the level of professionalism that I was expecting for the level of investment that I made in this program.” Anything that I feel like I need to speak up about, I will speak up about.

What things have you done that you are proud of? 

My book is definitely one of my greatest achievements that I feel most proud of because I don’t know the impact that my book is going to have. I already know the impact it’s had currently, but it’s something that is always going to be there. I love knowing that when I die, my book will still be there and that somebody can find my book and their life could literally be saved or at least changed from it. That gives me such a great feeling of peace. That’s what we’re all here to do, is to leave an impact on the world. That’s definitely the thing that I feel the most proud of.

Would you say your book is your legacy? 

It’s funny. That’s what I thought it was. I was at an event and we had to pretend that we died and that somebody else is writing our eulogy for us. We have to present the eulogy in front of the group of people like the person that’s speaking it. I went to this event and so I wrote my eulogy and I wrote it from my boyfriend’s perspective. I went up there and I presented my eulogy as my boyfriend. It was cool because I felt like I would be okay if I died now because I do feel like I’ve left my legacy. I’ve written my book, but then I was talking to a woman there and she was like, “Your legacy is not over.”

That is a part of my legacy, but it’s not the end of my legacy because now, my legacy is helping other people to write their books, to share their story. I would say that that is my legacy now and that’s the ripple effect. That’s what I love too about a book. It creates a ripple effect in the world where we don’t even know the impact because it just keeps going. Every single person that I work with and I help them with their story to get their story out in the world, then so many other people’s lives are affected by their story and it keeps going. That’s my legacy now is to inspire other people to share their story.

It’s wonderful work. What do you do for fun? 

I love Latin and ballroom dancing. I used to take lessons for a few years. I like going out salsa dancing or that kind of dancing. I love that. I love going to the beach. I live here in San Diego so we’re blessed to have the beach available mostly year-round pretty much. I do love going to the beach, just spending time in nature. I love all kinds of things. I love going to concerts. I love going to festivals, going to see movies, going out to eat, just hanging out with my friends. I try different things.

Those are things I love too. That makes me happy when I do those things. What’s next for you?

A podcast is in my future. I’m not sure when that’s going to launch, but I see myself hosting my own show and so that’s really exciting. I see my show being really about an extension of my book and a play-off of The Naked Truth where I have people come in and talk about their story and share their naked truth, stories where they’re willing to get vulnerable and raw and real. Then really some tips for our listeners because at the end of the day, stories are great, but we all want to know how to make our life better. I definitely want to have a show where my listeners are getting value every week because they’re getting tips from our guests that are going to make a difference in their life and creating more vulnerability in the world because with the way that our world going in terms of technology, that it’s ironic because in a way we can be more connected than ever. We can be connected to all these people across the world, through podcasts and through Facebook and all these forms with mediums.

Because of that, we can also feel so much more disconnected because we can think, “I already know what’s going on in this person’s life because I see their posts on Facebook,” but I’m sure we all know that most people don’t post what’s really going on in their life. I think for me it’s about creating a show that people can feel like they’re less alone. They realize, “This person has gone through this and they’ve made it through. Maybe I’m going through this. I can see that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel and then I’m not the only person that is going through.” Even the person that I’m talking to on the interview that is going through it right now in their life, to have a listener realize that they’re not alone, I feel that that’s my mission in this world, is to help people feel more connected, to realize that they’re not alone, and create more healing in the world.

You are leading to the next question that I have. What are your top three advisors for Asian women? 

I’ve been blessed to be growing up in both American and Taiwanese culture. Because I was raised in America and the American culture that it, in some ways, I almost can identify more with the American culture, but for advice for Asian women specifically versus other women, The Asian culture has had an influence on me for sure. Growing up, both of my parents were from Taiwan and my family. I know in the Asian culture, stereotypically women, you’re supposed to be more quiet and submissive, not speak their mind or be like a doctor, the stereotypical jobs.

I was blessed that my parents didn’t put that label or a box or pressure on us, that they told us basically we could do whatever we wanted. They just wanted us to be happy and I truly believe everybody wants that for their kids. If you have something to say, share it. Don’t be afraid to use your voice and also do what you love. Figure out what that is if you don’t know what that is, and don’t do something because you feel like you should. Maybe our parents put that pressure on you, but know that it’s your life and that you deserve to be happy and to do what you love. Those are two things I’d say.

Then a third thing I would say, and this is also maybe a stereotype for women and being Asian too, but the pressure to have perfect straight A’s in school. That was something that my parents didn’t do for us either. I’m grateful that they didn’t put that pressure on us. They just said to do our best. That’s the other thing, just to do your best to not put so much pressure on yourself and that you have to be perfect. That’s something that I am still working on myself. It’s so easy for us to put that pressure on ourselves, but to just remember at the end of the day that we’re not perfect and nobody’s perfect and to have compassion for yourself. That’s also where the self-love comes in. Just remember that you are human and you’re not going to do everything perfectly and you’re going to make mistakes and have compassion for yourself and also have compassion for other people and to remember that everyone’s doing their best.

Overcome Suicidal Thoughts: Just asking the question creates a possibility for something different, to not be so focused on that limiting belief.

Thank you for this insightful suggestion. Where do our listeners go to if they want to reach out to you? 

You can go to my website, JoieCheng.com.

It’s wonderful to talk with you, Joie. I wish you the best of luck on your journey. 

Thank you so much, Kimchi. Thank you again for having me. It’s so much fun and it’s such an honor to be here. Thank you for the work that you’re doing. I love that you are sharing stories of powerful Asian women and the work you’re doing in the world. It’s amazing, so thank you.

I hope this interview opened your mind about different gender role expectation. Not all men are masculine and not all women are feminine. The masculine and feminine traits are used for different purpose. Each of us have both masculine and feminine traits. Some of us have more feminine traits than others. What are the reasons that you might feel that you don’t belong here? I like to hear your thoughts. Until next time, live life loud.

Did you learn something new from this talk? Be kind to yourself. Forgive yourself on past mistakes. The more you accept yourself, the more beautiful you look and feel. Let me know your thoughts about what we discussed in this episode. Until next time, live life loud.

Links Mentioned:

• Joie Lilly Cheng
• The Naked Truth: A Woman’s Journey to Self-Love
• Matrix Energetics
• The Work
• JoieCheng.com
• https://www.facebook.com/Joie-Cheng-344326539040466/
• https://twitter.com/selflovehealer
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/joiecheng/

Episode Quotes

“What we don’t receive put us on the path we are.”

“Do what you love. You deserve to be happy.”

 “What we don’t receive put us on the path we are.”

About Joie Lully Cheng

Joie Cheng, M.S.W., The Queen of Transformational Book Publishing, is passionate about helping people write and publish their books so they can make the income and impact they desire and deserve. She believes that when we share our stories we heal ourselves and we heal the world.

Joie is a Patrick Snow certified publishing coach, author, speaker, mentor, healer, circle facilitator, and a trained yoga teacher. She is the best-selling author of The Naked Truth: A Woman’s Journey to Self-Love about her personal journey of healing herself naturally from deep depression and suicidal thoughts through self-love.

https://www.facebook.com/Joie-Cheng-344326539040466/