Taking Patients Beyond The Exam Room With Dr. Emily Letran And Dr. Susan Truong

Taking Patients Beyond The Exam Room With Dr. Emily Letran And Dr. Susan Truong

Emily: Thank you for inviting me. Thank you so much for taking the time to create a platform where we can share our story and our strategies. I’m similar to you. I was born in Vietnam back in the late ‘60s. My family tells me that during the Third Offensive, my mom was running for the bomb shelter and she was pregnant with me. I was born in 1968. 1981 is when I came to the United States. That’s right when the communist Vietnamese were going to invade Cambodia and then have that border fighting with China like thousands of years ago. We escaped on a boat. We were on the ocean for seven days. The first two days with food and the next five days with sips of water. We ended up in Malaysia, in Pulau Redang. We were there for a couple of months and then I came to the United States.

Coming to the United States, I always tell people that my luggage were hope and faith. We came without anything. At that point, the trial for me was to get a good education, get a good job, and be able to help the family. Being a doctor is that pinnacle that we all think that that’s going to give us the best status and the money and the support. By chance, I was thinking about becoming a pharmacist. One of my friends talked me out of it. I didn’t want to be a doctor. I did not want to be tied up with a beeper. Back in the days, you had a beeper. They would page you and then you’ve got to go find a phone to call back.

My friend introduced me to dentistry. I went to dental school. I had not a whole lot of ideas of what it took. I had a couple of fillings in my mouth and that was about it. That was my experience with dentistry. As I went through school, what I enjoyed the most was the privilege of taking care of patients. In our industry, we have that built-in check-up every six months. Similar to Susan, she’s seeing patients once a year. There’s a built-in relationship with patients. When you have your business going on for years, you see a lot of changes in your patients’ lives. It’s your honor that you could touch their lives and be part of their life. I would say that the primary reason for going into dentistry or being a doctor is having the income and status. Ultimately, what kept me in there is the privilege of serving.

Kimchi: What about you, Dr. Susan?

Susan: Thank you so much for having me here with you both. It’s a privilege. My story is similar yet slightly different. I’m Vietnamese, but I’m from Laos. I have never stepped into Vietnam. I was born and raised in Vientiane, the capital Laos. Most people would say, “You’re Laotian.” No. I’m 100% Vietnamese blood. My roots are from Central Vietnam, Da Hue, and Da Nang area. Some generations back, my grandparents and my great grandparents, during the Civil War in Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, they would move to wherever to keep their families safe. My parents were born and raised in Laos also.

Living in Vientiane, which is located on the Mekong River, I was born in ‘68 during the Third Offensive. When Saigon fell in ’75, my father worked for the government in Laos for the Vietnamese government. He heard and knew through the grapevine that all hell was going to break loose. He fled first over to Thailand. He then hired somebody to get my mom and us, five kids, I’m the eldest with four younger brothers, to flee across the river. With how it was back in Asia then, once you cross the Mekong River to Thailand, you’re free. You don’t have to worry about the communist.

Laos, which was a monarchy, we had a king and queen and all that. They abdicated the throne. As soon as South Vietnam fell to communism, it was in ‘75 when we fled over the Mekong River to Thailand. We were in a refugee camp. We lived in a refugee camp for a year, waiting for our paper to be processed and family in the US to sponsor us. We headed over to the US in ‘76. First, we landed in San Francisco because my uncle sponsored us. My parents were like, “This is a big city.” We came with nothing. We came with not knowing the English language, the American culture, no money, starting from the bottom.

In San Francisco, which is a huge city, my parents were saying, “We need something that is a little more conducive to raising a family. The kids can have a yard to run around.” My uncle was a bachelor living in this little apartment in what seemed to us a big city. We have families in St. Petersburg, Florida and they said, “Come over here.” I had an aunt and uncle there and they said, “It’s warmer weather like back home in Asia. It’s not a big city like San Francisco.” We went to San Francisco, maybe not even six months, and settled in St. Petersburg, Florida. My family has been there since ‘76. It’s been good. They’re still there. I live across the Bay in Tampa, but all the family is across the Bay in St. Petersburg.

Similarly to Dr. Emily, this typical immigrant thought process is, “The status of being a doctor and the income.” Being the eldest, the pressure was on from my parents. I am the eldest. I have to do well in school. I have to set the examples for the four brothers. Failure was not an option. I was a mini-mom from an early age. I helped mom and dad take care of the boys. I went to college. I had a gap between college and heading off to graduate school to get my doctorate. I spent six years. After my bachelor’s, I did medical research that was a great learning and all. I thought I might make that a career, but I found that I didn’t like being a lab rat. I needed people around me. I always knew that I wasn’t going to stop until I got a doctorate degree in something.

After six years of doing that, I applied and went into optometry school and it was not easy. It was a lot of work, but it was good. It was good, hard work. It’s purposeful. I’ve been practicing for years. I’ve been blessed with that. That’s where it took me where I am now. Of course, we can talk about what happened that pivoted us into the coaching world. At the end of the day, like Dr. Emily, like many of us, I love serving and building relationships. At the end of the day, it’s all about relationship building. That’s my journey over to America.

Taking Patients Beyond: Sometimes, doing more may not be in your field; it could be in something else. Keep an open mind. Look around. Learn from leaders.

Kimchi: Thank you. Looking back, how long did it take you to obtain the doctorate degree? Were you glad that you made that decision? If you have to repeat your life again, would you repeat that same path?

Susan: I would repeat it and I’m glad I did it. It was not only just a Doctorate Degree. It was many of life’s lessons also in terms of the different relationships I’ve built along the way and life lessons as to the work ethics, studying ethics. I do a lot of mentoring of college students that come into the office now that do shadowing. They want to know, “Do I want to become an eye doctor myself? Let me go spend some time with an eye doctor and see what it means to be an eye doctor.” I don’t want them to just know about being an optometrist. I want them to understand that it’s an eye doctor. It’s running a business, an entrepreneur, a businesswoman. I want them to understand all of that.

Especially, part of my mentoring, it’s different between my male students and my female. This choice of specialty, you got to look at what Dr. Emily said in the days of pagers and beepers. I didn’t want to be a slave being on call and running into the hospital in the middle of the night tending to whatever needs. Different specialties allow you to have a different lifestyle. Especially with my female students, I said, “You want to think about that later on when you want to start a family or take time off or something you can work full-time, part-time. You got to think.” When they’re young, they’re not thinking about that. Of course, my guy students, they’re like, “Okay, whatever.” That’s something I like to share. I want them to have a different perspective on things.

Kimchi: Dr. Emily, what’s your thought about that?

Emily: I would repeat the process. For me, being a doctor means you’re striving for status. It’s status in the sense you’re taking yourself through the top level, being the best version of yourself whether it’s knowledge or whether it’s leverage or whether you’ll be able to mentor. You have to be in a certain position at a certain level for people to look up to you. A lot of us, or maybe the three of us, we’re ambitious. We change our lives. We do this with our lives. We want the kids to do that. We want people around us to do that. Looking at it that way, it’s similar to a teacher. We’ll be touching the kids’ lives and shaping their thinking and inspiring them.

When you’re in a position as a CEO, doctor, higher management position, or a thought leader, that’s what we like to call ourselves, we have that privilege to be able to influence people. If I’m in a dental chair, I can influence dental patients. As a coach or as a consultant, then I can influence other business owners. A little bit of that for me has to do with ambition. The ambition in you that you didn’t know comes out as you do some things and you say, “I like to do that.” I would like to tell people to do things and help people. I coach them and lead them to do certain things. It could be the genes from my parents. Both of my parents were teachers.

Kimchi: At what age did you realize that there is more to life than just to make a living? What was the moment in your life that woke you up?

Emily: For me, as I’m going through the process of learning, like learning how to run business and learning how to manage my practices, I started seeing other thought leaders having the ability to monetize their knowledge. It clicked one day, several years ago, when I said, “I know some of this and I want to share some of that.” I want to monetize knowledge. I want to learn from the mentors and the other coaches so I can be that catalyst helping people speed up whatever process it is that they’re trying to go through. Part of it is from the experience that we already have, running our own businesses.

The other part is from being exposed to other leaders and seeing that other leaders could change people’s lives whether it’s with their voice. If you’re listening to Les Brown, then you think you can do anything you want. If you’re looking at somebody who believes in them like my mentor, Sharon Lechter, she writes many books and she influenced many lives. It’s the financial part of it. When you see those examples and you get inspired by those, that’s when you have a little itch, “Maybe I can do the same thing.” If you’re fortunate enough to be able to work with them, then it makes the journey easier.

Kimchi: How old were you when you realized that? At a certain age, we’ll have that evaluation about our lives. It could be in the early 40s or something like that. What about you? You said several years ago. When was it that you had the itch?

Taking Patients Beyond: When you open up your heart to help and guide people, you can see the greatest potential in them that they can’t see in themselves.

Emily: It was when I was 40. That was the first time I started working with a consultant. I’ve been running my dental practices successfully. That was around the recession, 2008 and 2009. I didn’t quite feel it in my business until about 2010 because I was running it well. It had a little lagging effect. When I started looking around, I was like, “Maybe I should learn different ways to do this.” I first worked with a consultant and saw how he grew and leveraged a lot of what he already knew. He happened to be a consultant that he was working with chiropractors. He took that same knowledge and he started working with dentists. For those few years that I was working with him, his business grew many forms and it’s only him with that particular set of knowledge but making it into a program where people can learn.

That’s why I started thinking, “Maybe I can do something like that.” Maybe not to that level, because his thing was more marketing and team building and my passion has always been about personal development, personal growth. People say, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” Magically, I ended up with CEO Space and then I met Sharon. This whole thing took off in that direction. I call it an itch but it’s when you feel, “I can be more. I can do more.” If you start looking, then the right people seem to come into your life. Along with your life, maybe every five years, you ask yourself, “Is this enough? Is this all I could do? Can I be more than this?” Sometimes doing more may not be in your field, it could be in something else. Keep an open mind. Look around. Learn from leaders. It doesn’t have to be the leader of the same industry.

Susan: Kimchi, I would say that it doesn’t necessarily have to be a particular age. Sometimes it’s life’s events that would happen to you. When you had asked, “At what age did you realize you want to change?” With me, it wasn’t a particular age. With me, it was when I lost a younger brother. It was years ago. With four younger brothers, I would number my brothers one through four. It wasn’t a particular age. It was losing my brother. He was 42. It was years ago. It was when I was about 46, 47. He was experiencing pain. He finally went to the doctor. He was stubborn as anything. He was diagnosed with stage 4 liver cancer. It has metastasized. It was too late. Nine days later, he was gone. That woke me up. That was my rude awakening.

After that, there was a lot of soul searching and a lot of asking questions. I’ve been blessed to work. When you said, “When did you realize that there was more to life than career, money, and success?” I worked hard. I built my multiple practices. I’ve been successful. I’ve been blessed with that. Life was good, going day by day. Losing my brother, it was like, “Is this it?” All these questions, you have this monologue, “Is this it?” As an eye doctor, I spend my day in my exam room. It’s a small, windowless, dimly lit room. That’s what we do as an eye doctor. We keep it dim at times. The question I ask myself is, “Is this it? Am I meant to die in this windowless room?” In that soul-searching, the universe said, “Susan, there’s more. I need you to do more. You’re not done. You need to get your message, your gift, and go impact life beyond your exam room.” That’s how I started moving into coaching and public speaking.

I coach patients. Dr. Emily would know. We’re not only dentists and optometrists. We’re more than that to our patients. It’s a holistic approach to our patients. I always tell my patients, “You’re not a set of eyeballs sitting in my exam chair. You’re a person as a whole.” I take care of you top to bottom, in to out. What to eat, what to drink, medications you take, that all affect your eye health, vision, and everything. The conversations, like a hairstylist or a bartender, you end up coaching them and becoming their therapist or counselor. They trust in you. They open up their time spent with you because it comes more than an eye exam.

Oftentimes patients would say, “You need to have your TV show. Instead of Dr. Phil, it’s Dr. Susan.” When you open up your heart like that to help and to guide people, you can see the greatest potential in people that they can’t see in themselves. That’s where that all came. When you asked what particular age, it was the event. Losing my brother was a major pattern disruption. As much as it was tough losing my brother, on the other hand, it was a blessing. I’m on a different journey. It’s allowing me to have this journey of coaching and public speaking. The big thing is impacting lives and taking it beyond my exam room. That’s the thing.

Kimchi: A few of us, we use those events to think and question ourselves, “What am I doing here? Is this it?” Your younger brother, he lost his life suddenly. The impact that it had on you is different than the impact he has on other siblings. Did your other sibling do anything about their lives? Have they changed their life at all? 

Susan: Kimchi, it didn’t just change me. It changed my whole family all in positive ways. We got wrapped up with being busy. Everybody is running in different directions and all that. I only live probably maybe 35 miles away from my parents and my siblings. I would visit them every few months. Now, it’s every weekend. You come to realize life is too short. Everything else is not that important. At the top of the list is time with family, time with parents, time with siblings, family. What hit me hard was when I was putting together an online program and the person that was helping me said, “I need some pictures of you and your brother,” my brother that passed away. I’m digging through and I’m thinking, “This is crazy.” Maybe we have pictures when we were young but he wanted something relatively recent right before he passed.

I was telling my husband, I said, “This is crazy.” There are not too many pictures of me and Devon. That got me thinking, “You didn’t spend enough time with Devon. This is nuts.” My thing now is time with the family. Same with my siblings, they’ve come to realize that whatever they were doing was not that important. The brothers, they’re hanging out with friends and this and that. Now, it has brought us closer and tighter. Believe me, I was not the only one that was changed. It was tough on my parents. We always hear, “No parents want to bury their child.” We’re much closer and much tighter because of Devon’s passing. Thank you for asking.

Kimchi: I know that most of you are married. Does your spouse or any of your family members support you in your business, in your practice or in your coaching business at all?

Taking Patients Beyond: If you’re not in the driver’s seat, then somebody else is going to drive your life.

Susan: Yes. It’s important to have support. Especially our spouse, if they’re not supportive, then I would have to be questioning that. You met my husband when we were in Egypt at the WEF. Whatever our aspirations and our dreams for us, it’s always about to be there for one another to support. To help lift each other up through whatever our aspirations may be. To answer your question, yes, supportive. It’s always about, “What is it that makes you happy, Susan?” Is it running your practice successfully, running it well? Your coaching, public speaking, impacting lives, and whatever makes you happy, we’re there to support you and for whatever needs that you have. To answer your question, yes. They’re supportive and I’m blessed with that.

Kimchi: Dr. Emily?

Emily: My husband is different. He is risk-averse. He can check the risks. He is happy being an employee. For me, I’m already an entrepreneur in being a dentist. I’ll give you an example. If I go home and say, “Mary didn’t show up to work because she didn’t have a babysitter.” He would say, “Why don’t you fire her?” I’m thinking, “Who’s going to work?” I have 1 or 2 assistants. If I fired Mary, then it’s harder for me to work. Him, as an engineer, they got a bunch of them. They got the HR department to deal with that. He doesn’t deal with it. Several years ago, we came to the understanding that we’re going to respect each other’s space. We’re not going to dictate.

He can’t take the risks. He’s the kind of person that the first day I went to work as a dentist, I came back and I remember I was 25 years old and he said, “I already set up your retirement account.” I’m not like that. I’m like, “We’re going to wing it today and we’re going to do whatever it takes.” When I got into this coaching business, he thinks I’m crazy, which is okay. I’m a little bit different from Susan. For me, it’s more about my own journey. If I’m clear and I say, “I want to do X.” He doesn’t need to support it as long as he respects me doing X. My whole family thinks I’m crazy too, which is okay too. They would ask me if I would go on continuing education. This has to do with dentistry. They would say, “What are you learning? Haven’t you learned enough?”

Dentists, were required to take 50 hours of continuing education every two years. Of course, I take more than that. They don’t understand, “Why do you have to go and move back?” Some of them are married or have a spouse who has a dentist in their family and that dentist doesn’t do the same thing as me. That dentist is happy to have an office, go every day, eight hours, and that’s it. Even as a dentist, I wasn’t doing what a normal dentist does. For me, I need the support. The support doesn’t have to be my spouse. The support doesn’t have to be my family. The support could be, Susan. I’ll text her and say, “I’m upset with whatever.” She’ll text me back and tell me something to lift me up.

For me, for example, be the father, be the spouse, and be there for our own family. That might be what I would expect from him. For him to be able to support me, he has to be on the same journey and he’s not. I don’t think he’s the type. He’s a follow the rule engineer. This is how our life is supposed to be. I remember the first time I took my kids to CEO Space. For some of your readers who don’t know what that is, it’s an international entrepreneurial business meeting and they have a segment that has the kids there. You come with your kids, you go to your meeting, and they get to go to their meeting.

I remember when I first told my kids, “You guys are going to CEO Space,” there’s all this whining. I said, “You don’t have a choice. Mom’s going so you’re all going.” The next day, they said, “Dad told us that we should work for the government because we’re going to have pension.” I go, “Does he know that you guys are all going to CEO Space?” They go, “He knows, but that’s what he said.” I said, “Fine.” He respects me, where he let me take the kids to go to the business conference. My kids, the youngest one, had been to four different conferences. The oldest one has been to 5 or 6. They’ve been to business conferences. They’ve been to Brendon Burchard events.

For me, it’s, “I want to enrich your life. You pick what you like, but I’m filtering. I want you to see entrepreneurship and personal growth besides your school.” As long as my husband leaves me alone in doing my part and enriching their lives and enriching my life, as long as we have respect for each other, it’s okay. For some people, there’s a conflict where they want the husband to support them and they don’t get that. You have to be really clear on what you expect from your partner or your spouse because sometimes you can’t do what you want.

Kimchi: The important thing that we, as women, need to understand in marriage is it is a partnership. Your spouse is an individual. It’s important to accept who they are because you want your spouse to support you. There are so many ways of support. What does support mean? For Susan, she said supporting means that the spouse is totally behind her. He would go with her and help her with whatever she needs. That’s support for Susan. For Emily, support means, “I let you do whatever you want, as long as I don’t stand and stop you from doing that.” I feel the same way in my marriage as well. It was hard to accept that at the beginning. 

In the beginning, I said, “How come my husband is not supporting me?” Through many coaching sessions with my coaches. They said, “No. He’s brazen. He’s there. He can work in the background. He took care of the house and the kids while you were traveling. He allowed you to do what you want to do without telling you to stop it.” That means support. I was like, “Okay.” Yes, I realized that. The more I learned about self-development work, like what Emily said, “We are on our own journey.” My journey is not the same as my spouse. Even though we live in the same house, we are married and have the same children, his journey and my journey are totally different.

Taking Patients Beyond: You have to learn how to position yourself, so when you ask, at least people listen, and they can share the message for you.

I understand what Emily goes through. I also understand what Susan goes through. They’re lucky because not many women, Susan, have the support that you have from your spouse. I’ve seen so many Asian couples don’t have support. Luckily, Emily and I do have support but they’re passive support. They allow us to do whatever we want to do because we accept the same thing from them. We allow them to do whatever they want to do. We don’t dictate to say, “You need to know this for me.” That’s not showing support. Allow them to grow at their own pace and do whatever they want to do, as long as we both mutually respect each other. What were the top three valuable lessons that you have learned in your life?

Emily: I’ll answer that one first. We all learn a lot of things in our lives. I would say the top three, and this has come from all of the training and all the coaching that I’ve had. The first one is to believe in yourself. Sometimes we don’t believe in ourselves because there’s nobody cheering us along. I remember when I first told my family that I applied to dental school. Everybody was like, “Why? We don’t think you have the best hands. We don’t think you should go to dental school.” I said, “I don’t want to go to med school. My friends don’t want to go to pharmacy school.” I even thought about optometry. I said,
“That leaves dentistry. I’m going into dental school.”

When you make one of the biggest decisions in your life and your family’s like, “No, don’t.” Make the best out of it and you’re the most successful. It teaches you along the line of, “Maybe I shouldn’t listen to other people. I should listen to my gut and believe myself first as long as I know that I’m giving it 100%.” I learned that early in life. I was 21 when I made that decision. As I go along, it’s always, “I’ve got to believe in myself first,” because no coaches, mentors, or nobody can make you believe in yourself. That’s the work that you have to do for yourself.

The second one is, I believe, in order to be successful, you have to ask for help. There are people who have a big ego. They think they know everything and usually, those are the people who haven’t been out there and meeting with other more successful people to understand that success is that journey and you don’t stop here. There are always people above you and a little bit behind you. Even asking for help takes a lot of courage. In the process of asking for help, whether you want support or to fast track certain things, you have to have that courage to reach out and ask people. That’s one of the big things that I learned because I thought I was pretty courageous.

I’m sharing my story and people are like, “You’re on a boat. That’s pretty courageous.” The one thing I learned when I started working with coaches and mentors was a big piece of it was courage. I remember when I wrote my second book, I wanted to ask Sharon Lechter to write the foreword but I couldn’t. I chickened out. I went and I asked her assistant coach. The assistant coach told me something like, “Why don’t you write the foreword, show it to me and I’ll modify it?” I go, “Okay.” I thought about it and I thought, “That doesn’t sound right.” In one of the coaching calls, I asked Sharon, but I didn’t have the guts to ask first.

I had to be turned down for this one for me to go, “I’m going to give it a try. The worst-case scenario, I’ll do this one.” To my surprise, she said, “Of course, yes.” Later on, I told her that I asked the other person and she was pretty upset, “How come you didn’t go straight and asked me?” I said, “Because I was scared.” I even worked with her for several years. The first time we went to India together, and these are self-discovery. I was an India with her for a week and I was stressed to the max. I’m thinking that now I’m going to hang out with Sharon for a whole week. I told her this on the last day before we left and she said, “I can’t believe you say that you’re stressed out because you have to hang out with me for a week.”

She kept saying that these are things like that. I’m sure that when you see outside, you could look confident, say, and do the right thing, but you have to deal with yourself on the inside. You have to know yourself and you have to ask for help. The people who ask for help more and take advantage of that and make something out of it are the people who are more successful. They fast track and think more but don’t be an askhole. You ask but you don’t do what they told you to do. Make sure that when you ask, they give you the address and actually take the advice and go with it.

The third thing that would help you be successful is to give back. It shows strength when you give back. Meaning, there’s an abundance if you give away certain things. Other people are going to give you something else that will replenish you, make you full and whole. The people that I follow and study from are usually the givers. The dental consultant I mentioned to you before, he’s successful. One of his things is to write down your goals and stick them in your wallet. You’re supposed to read it every day. It’s that kind of thing.

When I was working with him, and until now, there’s a goal of giving. How much are you going to give this year? I’m sure that there are a lot of people who do that, but that would not be the majority. You have a goal. This is how much I want to make, the vacation I want to take and these are in my bucket lists or whatever but not too many people say, “How much are you going to give this year?” Whether you give how many hours or give how much money or whatever it is. If you’re not sure, say, “I’m going to give away $1,000 this year.” You pass $1,000 in the next year, you say, “I’m going to give away $10,000.” It’s that kind of thing.

When I first started working with that consultant, he was talking about money. It was a two-day meeting and I already signed up. I drove home and I’m thinking, “I’m not sure if this is the right decision because he kept talking about money for a whole day.” On the next day, he said he has a goal. His goal was to give away $50 million. I go, “This might work. I’m going to stick with this guy and see how he would give away $50 million in his lifetime.” He’s younger than me. Maybe ten years younger than me. That’s an ambitious goal. It’s a goal that it will force you to discipline yourself to give. At the same time, it builds a sense of gratitude.

Taking Patients Beyond: Find something inspirational in whatever you want to do. Think bigger than just money or status.

You’re helping other people. You think bigger than yourself. Maybe you don’t think about the community but you can think, “I can help that person or this person.” At some point, you have to think bigger. You’re going to build schools, houses, or things like that. Those are the things that have made me successful. They were learned and qualities that I’ve gotten over the years. If you look at other people and if they have those particular things, you’re going to see that they are more successful than others.

Kimchi: Before Susan starts, I want to follow up with your shares, Emily. You said you were stressed out when you spent one week with Sharon. What’s going on in your mind that you were stressed out? You spend and invest in a lot of money to hang around with leaders like Sharon Lechter. What was going on in your mind that you stressed out? Tell us what’s going on there.

Emily: For me, it’s like when you’re spending time with your coach or your mentor and maybe you’re spending a weekend where they are training you. It’s a business sense. Do you know what I’m saying? Let’s say when I go on a retreat at her ranch. In the morning, we all wake up, go eat breakfast, go back, and change. It’s a little casual, but this is in a foreign country and you’re with her pretty much 24/7 until you when you go to bed and go into your room. I’ll tell you that on the first day that we were there, I was rooming with one of her friends and she was with her husband. She said, “We’re going to meet tomorrow at 5:00 AM.” I’m thinking, “Yeah, right.” My friend and I put on the alarm and woke up at 4:30 or whatever and we took the elevator down. I’m looking and it was about 5:00. She said, “I bet you Sharon is already down here.” We walked out the elevator and sure enough, she’s there. She was there before us. She’s older and everything else. Here we are trying to wake up.

For me, the stress was, it was going to be casual for this whole week. How are you going to be? Are you going to be lazy? I know myself but it’s similar to having to hang around with your mother-in-law and you don’t know her well. I don’t know my mother-in-law well. I married my husband for that good reason because my mother-in-law was in Vietnam and I said, “That’s one qualification. I don’t have to be a daughter-in-law.” I don’t know her well, so my first trip back was stressful. What am I supposed to do? I know all the right things to say as an educated adult, but still, it’s with somebody that you don’t know.

It wasn’t like I didn’t know Sharon, but it is different when you’re going to be there for two days on a retreat, and you’re there with several people and this is you, her and her husband. That’s it. There was a friend of hers who was there for 2 to 3 days and went to another retreat. That was it. It was like your little family for a whole week. I was dressed in the sense that I knew she wasn’t watching me or anything, but, “Watch Emily show up.” The casual one or am I going to be late to breakfast? There was no time that you’re supposed to wake up for breakfast, but if you’re hanging around with her, and you know that she’s going to be down there at 8:00 AM you better make it down there at 8:00 AM. That was my stress. Maybe stress is not the word but it’s interesting because I don’t think she understood that. It’s more with us as Asians. We tend to worry about those things.

For Americans, if you think about it, they’re on a first-name basis. I don’t think it’s the same thing and that is one of my limiting beliefs. I’ve got to grow out of it. I tell people that I have a staff that is older than me and I can’t yell at them because they’re older than me. Even though I’m pissed off, I can’t deal with them but if they’re younger, I can yell at them. It’s because of the way we brought up our culture. You can’t yell at older people. You’re supposed to respect them. When I’m with Sharon, and Michael, her husband, even though they may treat you as equal, in a sense, you’re their client, but I don’t see it that way. That’s the reason. It’s interesting and I still remember that she was repeating it 3 or 4 times in the car, “I can’t believe you told me this.” “When I told you that in the beginning the week that would ruin it.”

Kimchi: Yes, it is a limiting belief about ourselves that we are not good enough. Other people might not accept us for who we are or how we show up. That’s normal. A lot of us have those limiting beliefs that keep us from being courageous, being ourselves, and things like that. Let’s get back to Susan, what about you? What were your top three valuable lessons that you have learned about your life?

Susan: At the top, I will tell you humility. Some people don’t get that but that means. I’m like, “Humility. It means to be humble.” I always tell people, “Just because I have a doctor title, it doesn’t make me better than you.” I’ve been blessed with the opportunity to further my education and get my doctorate degree. Humility helps to keep us grounded. For example, in my practice, I wouldn’t say in medicine, but in different businesses, we have referrals. We choose who we would refer our patients, clients, or coach to. It’s that relationship that we built and I often tell people there’s a fine line between arrogance and confidence.

Arrogance, I don’t do it. It’s like what Dr. Emily has talked about earlier about somebody having an ego. I don’t have time for people with ego issues and arrogance. If you’re like that, you’re not getting my patients. I’m not referring to you. You’re not getting my patients or clients. Humility is important to have to understand and live by. This is me adding on to the three that Dr. Emily listed. I would agree with her three. The next thing is perseverance. I will tell you, there have been some different challenges in my life, whether it’s academically, professionally, personally, and personal relationships. If I had given up or my parents had given up that easily, I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t be with the two of you now. I wouldn’t be where I am now.

The perseverance, as Dr. Emily had spoken about too, is hope. Hope and faith keep you persevering and keeps you from giving up that easily. It keeps me from giving up that easily. People, don’t give up. We’ve heard this before, “Winners never quit. Quitters never win.” Persevere. Third, last but not least is never lower your standards for anyone. I remember when I was in college, I was probably a second year, so I was maybe 19 or 20 in college during my undergrad. I was a research assistant to a student who was working on his PhD. He’s got his research program, I’m assisting him and he became a mentor, a big brother. We were talking about life and all the challenges of the courses and some relationship issues. He was the one who said, “Never lower your standard for anyone. Never change yourself to fix the standard and the needs of someone else so they can like you. You just be you. You just be who you feel that you are the best you that you can be.”

Taking Patients Beyond: When we can get our younger people to always think bigger than themselves, then we’re going to have a better society.

That is something I have never forgotten that I share with others, whether it’s patient, students, or a mentor. Never lower your standard. It goes along with being you and me deciding to be the CEO of your life. If you’re not in the driver’s seat, somebody else or something else is going to drive your life. I made that decision long ago at that time, late teens, early twenties, “No. Nobody is going to be driving my life. I’m going to be in that driver’s seat.” Those are my three top items. I’m sure Dr. Emily and I can add to that list but those are the three that that’s not at the top of my mind.

Kimchi: I totally agree with those three valuable lessons. I know that each of us needs to have all those lessons in order for us to realize that life is precious and we hold that power in our hands. We are the ones who create our destiny. Nobody else. Do you see yourself doing what you are currently doing for the next 10 to 20 years? If so, what would stay the same, and what would change?

Susan: No. I am gradually working my way out of seeing patients. I’ve been doing it for years. I’ve been blessed with it, but I’ve gradually slowed. I want to gradually phase out on that so I can get more into traveling. Suddenly, we love to travel. Traveling can be a pleasure but traveling for speaking, coaching, or mentoring. It’s getting out there into the world and impacting more lives. It’s wonderful to be able to travel but with this quarantine, we have we know that we can still impact life virtually. Many of us, if not nearly all of us, have pivoted to that. No. That is a big goal of mine, which I am starting to do. I’m phasing out from seeing patients and more into coaching and impacting lives in that manner. Dr. Emily?

Emily: My ultimate goal is to be a world-famous philanthropist. Everything I do is leading to that. What I’m planning to do is to phase out of treating patients, but maybe do one day. I’m not going to totally leave the office because as a professional, if I’m coaching other professionals, the fact that I do run that business builds more credibility. I’m seeing patients four days a week, so I’ll probably see one a day. Pick and choose which patients you have. It’s helpful that my daughter, Jennifer, is in dental school so I’ll sell the rest of it to her.

When I’m coaching people, it’s already virtual. This transition as far as coaching didn’t affect that. Speaking is a little bit different. I like to travel. I’m one of those people who likes anything new. That’s why I take risks. If you take the Kolbe, I’m the Quick Start, the ones that make quick decisions, take risks, and do weird stuff. I like to travel for that reason, so when I’m accepting a speaking engagement, it could be solely based on where we’re going. I want to go there. At the least, I’m going to meet new people and learn the culture. Sometimes Sharon would say, “Is that the right audience?” “I don’t know. It’s good enough.” That may not be the ideal audience, but I may want to go there because of the travel, the location, and the adventure if put it that way.

Ultimately, what I want to be is a philanthropist. I want to build up that income where I can use it for philanthropy. I’m a big fan and one of the things I want to do is to build a school. I know a couple of times when I went back home, it’s hard to walk into a classroom and basically see nothing in the classroom. There are only old tables. I remember when I was in school back home, we didn’t even have lights in the classroom. If you’re in the afternoon class, which we were, sixth graders, and it was raining/ You close the window, that was it. You can’t see anything. If you open the windows, the rain is going to get inside. If you close the window, the classroom is pitch black.

You come here and you see the kids have lots of things. You know that you can’t do the exact same thing there but that would be the first place I want to impact, which would be children’s education and give them that opportunity to have a good environment for them to learn. I remember we were in a classroom of 50 or 55 students and over here, if a classroom is more than twenty, everybody’s screaming. I would say, “That’s okay, they’ll live.” You can have more than twenty students in the room. Those are some of the things that, in my mind, are able to create an income where I can use that and do philanthropy.

Coaching and speaking is a good transition to that because it already has to do with traveling and meeting other influencers. One of my friends on Facebook said, “Why do you need to be more famous?” You could say, “I want to be a philanthropist.” “Why do you want to say you want to be a world-famous philanthropist?” I say, “World famous,” because, at that time when I asked for money, people would give it to me. Otherwise, if they don’t know me and ask them to donate, they’re not going to donate. My journey in speaking, coaching, putting myself on international stages, and knowing people on different continents is for that reason. It’s that ultimate motive. Later on, I’m going to reach out and make those connections and hopefully change the world.

Kimchi: I forgot to mention that you do have a nonprofit organization, Emily.

Emily: In the nonprofit, we’re giving free dental care to veterans and families of disadvantaged backgrounds. For me, one of the things that I’m frustrated with is the people who always say, “I want to help and I want to give but I don’t want to go and do a dental mission.” They think it has to be big. For me, just do whatever you can wherever you are. It’s easy for me. I already have a dental office and I’m already showing up to see patients. Why don’t I just make a day where I’m going to give free dental care? I learned this from another doctor that I heard at a conference and then the consultant I mentioned, he challenged all of us to do it once a year. I took it a step further and I do it more often.

Taking Patients Beyond: The younger people have so much in their future. It’s our job to direct their energy and passion a certain way where they can have it so much better than us.

I haven’t gotten to the point where I’m asking for money for donations to do that because, for me, it’s part of my business. If you want to build a school or whatever it is, then yes, I would want to leverage the local influencers and people who know where your dollar goes. It’s used for whatever you mean for it to use. That’s where we should learn to be influential and learn to ask for support. Even if the support is about philanthropy, it has nothing to do with us. You have to learn how to position yourself, so when you ask, at least people listen and they can share the message for you.

Kimchi: If it’s a nonprofit, you volunteer. The dentist could be you or could be your staff to provide free care and free treatment, and then you can enroll other people like students who are learning to become a dentist to come and support you during those times. It will spread your mission, purpose, and role more in that community. Is that a 501(c) organization?

Emily: It’s a 501(c)(3). It’s set up that way, but we haven’t functioned in that capacity where we ask for money. As I’m coaching other business owners and entrepreneurs a lot of time, people always say, “I want to do this. I want to create a nonprofit.” I go, “Do you want the number? I’ll give you the number of the person who can do this for you.” Sometimes, people say things, but they don’t follow through. When I’m helping my clients, it’s like, “Do you mean it? Is that part of your goals? Is that part of your clarity? If it is, then to be in alignment with it, let’s take the first step.”

Maybe the first step is you just create the thing. What you do with it is going to be the next step but if you’re just sitting and say, “I want to help, but I don’t know when to help.” For a dentist in California, there’s an event called CDA Cares, California Dental Association Cares and they do it twice a year. Once abroad and once in Southern California. There are 10,000 patients showing up. I’m not going away until the thing happens. I can just do it now in my office. That’s how I see things. Of course, I’m a little bit outside the box but there are people who say, “We’re looking forward to that event.” You don’t have to wait for the event. Just do it now, today, next week, or next month, and then you can still go to the event but you don’t have to wait for somebody to give you that opportunity.

You should create the opportunity. That’s one of the reasons why I like to help business owners because we have so much potential. We can do a bunch of things in our business and do it. Have somebody lead you, give you the idea, and you can do it yourself. That’s why you’re going to feel more fulfillment. The people who say, “I’m burnt out. I’m in a rat race,” or whatever, maybe because that’s all you do. You just show up and you just do the work. You’re not looking bigger. You’re not creating opportunities. You’re not helping people. That’s the part that fulfills. It’s not the transactional things that you do.

Kimchi: If other Asian American women want to follow your footsteps to be a doctor, an entrepreneur, or philanthropist, what would be your top three recommendations that they can do right now?

Susan: First of all, I want to know what it is that they want to do and why. I want to know their why. They have to know their why because your why drives you. Many of us in this personal development have heard this before, “Your why comes first, then the how will come easily.” Whether they want to be a doctor or an entrepreneur or a philanthropist, I want to know why. What’s driving you? You’re going to need that drive. Are you just wanting it because many people talk? As we know, talk is cheap. Fine. Talk, then take action. How much is this going to mean for you? How much of a burning desire? How big is that fire in there so that you can take that talk and turn it into a reality? I’ll have students then and they’ll have, “I want to be a doctor.” Great. You want to be a doctor because what? Do you know what it takes to be a doctor? Let me hear it. I want to know how much the research they’ve done and I want to hear because I’m quizzing them.

For example, we’ll take doctors as a simple example. I’m like, “Do you know the path? How much is schooling, etc., and so on?” Also, the cost. Is the cost going to be a turn-off? Being a doctor these days in the US, you’re coming out with six-figure student loans easily. If you truly want something, how long it takes, the time, and the money needed to invest in yourself, that’s going to be not a factor because whatever you want, if you want it that badly, there’s no obstacle. If there is an obstacle, you’re going to go over it, under it, through it, and around it, whatever it takes. Whatever it is that these Asian women want to be, I want to know. I want to sit down and have a heart to heart. I want to hear it and I want to know what is it that drives you and your why. I want to know how deep that goes because if it’s not deep enough, then don’t waste your time and money. Don’t even bother. That’s what I’ll say to them.

Emily: I understand what Susan says. As professionals, especially when we’re older, we see far beyond what they see. It’s easy to ask the why. For most of them, they don’t know the why. They have to discover that. For me, if somebody wants to be a doctor, like advanced education, the first thing I would try to get them to think is to be an inspiration. What I mean by that is what are you going to do with that degree? Do you want to have a lot of money? They’re talking about money, a big house, fancy vacations, and things like that.

It’s similar to what Susan says but I don’t want to knock that down. I want them to think more. What are you going to do with a lot of money? I want to inspire them to think bigger than just that degree, money, and house because I’m going through that with my son. He’s the smartest of the three kids and he could get it. He applied to a lot of prestigious schools or whatever. He wants to be an English teacher and that’s it. When I tell my patients, they go, “No. There’s no money in it.”

What do you tell the kid? He’s young and he’s not thinking about money, but he’s smart enough where he has asked his teachers and they all told him, “No, you don’t make a lot of money.” They told him at the beginning that they have to hold more than one teaching position or job or whatever in order to make ends meet. He’s smart enough to learn that reality. If it were my aunt many years ago, she would have said, “No, you’re not going to be a teacher. You have to be a doctor.” You can’t do that to your kids, even though somebody did that to you. For me, I would want to make sure that they find something inspirational in whatever they want to do. Think bigger than just money or status. The second thing is just like a lot of people do, which I didn’t do well when I was applying to dental school, is to learn as much about it as you can. In this day and age, it’s easier. You can go watch a video or whatever.

Back when we were applying, we had to go and shadow because there’s no video on YouTube to tell you what a dentist or what a doctor does. Now, there are many shows. Grey’s Anatomy that shows you this crazy doctor’s lifestyle kind of thing, there was none like that. I remember I was trying to shadow and the first day I went to shadow, I fainted for a bad reason because I used to not eat lunch when I was in college. I would take a class in the morning and then I just go home. I’ll be done by 1:00 or whatever and then I just go home.

I went from there and I went to shadow at a dentist’s office in the afternoon and then I was hungry or something, I passed out on the first day for a couple of minutes. They wake me up and they go, “Are you okay?” In the back of my head, I knew I was probably hungry. Take those opportunities. There’s so much information out there and people are just lazy. I want you to tell them. What is it like to be a dentist? Go work at a dentist’s office. Go to a different dentist’s office and find out whatever you say you want to do. A common one is if you ask young people and they say they want to get into financial stocks and trading because it makes a lot of money, but they have never been in that experience. If you watch any of those movies that talk about those experiences, those are high stress. Do you want to sign up your life to be in a high-stress situation? The third thing, and this is one thing that when people ask me, how I would do differently, I would give them this answer, and it is to slow down.

If you set yourself for a higher goal, a demanding career, it could be demanding for you to have a family or spend time with your kids or whatever it is, think about pacing yourself and slowing down because you never get that time back. This is also a hard part when you’re talking to a young person. They don’t understand that. For you to tell them, “You should slow down,” they have no idea like, “What are you talking about?” They’re young. I do this with my kids. My son wants to be in the choir and he wants to be in dance. I have to stop him from doing something else.

He writes for the paper and all this. He’s always busy and he’s a tough grader. Imagine if you throw him into college, he’s going to start piling up on himself, so teaching them or advising them right now to slow down and smell the flower. Take your time and pace yourself. That’s why you have young kids dealing with stress, committing suicide, and blaming the parents. They go, “My parents never pay attention to me,” that kind of a thing. They never slow down and learn to be present at the moment with their family and make the best out of it.

If you have a traveling parent, but they home for the weekend, make sure you’re home that weekend instead of being out in another activity. To be conscious about the time you spend, slow down, and make the most out of everything you have. My advice doesn’t have anything much to do with how well you can do in school, be more competitive, and that kind of thing. It’s more of understanding why you want to be there and what you can do once you’re there. It’s not just the status and the money, and make sure you enjoy the journey as you’re getting there.

Kimchi: Telling young people to slow down is hard. I don’t think they have a concept of pacing themselves or being present, and things like that because their mind is running 100 miles an hour. Most people can be present or they can slow down when they reach maybe their 50s because otherwise, you multitask and you think so much. It seems like you don’t see that you can slow down because there are many demands from you in life. It’s always good to give them something to think about. What do you want to be known for? Do you consider yourself a role model for Vietnamese women?

Susan: The role model, not just Vietnamese, but any Asian woman, is to not fit into that stereotyping of Asian women. We’re subservient and timid. You met my husband. My white boy as I call him, my American husband, would joke and would tease with people. He’s like, “She’s my mail order bride and look at how timid and subservient she is.” Yes, I’m timid and subservient, but all joking aside, there’s that stereotyping. Whatever your model is, speak up, stand up, and show up. Know who you are. What is it that you want out of life? Stand up for it. Don’t be afraid to speak up. Don’t be shy and timid.

What is singing from your heart and soul? Get it out. When you ask us, don’t be afraid. That was me in my teens and early twenties. Thinking back, I would share with my husband, I’m like, “Come to think of it, people used to say about me, ‘Look at Susan. She’s quiet, shy, and timid.’” Of all of life’s crazy experiences, she’s totally the opposite. I am not afraid because I know who I am. I’m comfortable in my own skin and I’m just going to be me. Being me helps to make it a better world as a role model that I would say similar to other Asian women. Don’t be afraid. Just be you because you being you is a great thing. That’s what I share.

Emily: A lot of times, I want to inspire people to be the best version of themselves. I want everybody to think of themselves as a role model. You could be a role model for your friends. The one in school who is the football captain or maybe you’re the head of the cheerleader. As a young person, you could be a role model. If you’re in a work environment, you could be a role model for your peers. If you’re in a professional space, you could be a role model by being an influencer by putting yourself out there. Whenever you think of yourself as a role model, what you do is, you just have to walk a little straighter and watch what you say because there are people watching. In this day and age, there are many people watching that you don’t know. I learned this when I go to a conference and somebody will walk up to me and say, “I see you on Facebook all the time.” I’m thinking, “I don’t know who this person is. I have never been to this conference or the city.”

In the beginning, it throws you off but then after that, you just thought, “I better watch what I say on Facebook or when I post or in a conference because that people around you are listening.” When we talk about young Asians nowadays, they are born here so they don’t even have that bridge of gap or whatever that you know connecting the culture. They think like an American. When we inspire them to be a role model and tell them, “Wherever you are, be the best version of yourself,” usually, you’re not 100%. You learn from somebody who’s better. You learn from all the leaders. You learn from reading a biography. You strive to be that person and you put yourself in the position that maybe the younger kids are watching me. Like my son, I remember when he was a sophomore. He told me, “I’m in this club,” and he’s supposed to show the freshmen it’s cool. You’re like, “You’ve been there for years and you don’t know how to show it to the freshmen.” Right then and there, once a week, he has a meeting. He’ll put on a pink shirt with bright green words. He’s a different person.

They picked that particular color so the freshmen could see them and they could spot them out. On that day, their club is there and then you can come and ask them questions. Maybe it’s by their class or whatever. I like for people to think like that, and you can think like that 100%. Before you make a difficult decision, if you think, “If I’m the role model, what would I do? If what I’m going to do right now is going to affect the classes that come up after, how would I do that?” I know it sounds like I’m bragging a lot about my kids because that’s what everyone does. I’ll give you an example. My son went to his history teacher one time and he was introducing cultural studies to high school. When he went and told the teacher, he never told me. All I know is he said that the Board of Education of the school is considering making that part of the curriculum. The only reason he thinks about those things is because he’s looking beyond the school, the books he reads, and the teachers who inspire him always to think bigger.

When we can get our younger people always to think bigger than themselves more than, “What can I do for this weekend? What car can I buy with my next check?” Think bigger, think of influence, and think of being a role model. We’re going to have a better society because everybody wants to be the best version of themselves. It’s easier said than done but if you repeat it often enough, you’ll go through the heads. When my youngest turned fourteen, he told me, “I’m happy I turned fourteen,” and I went, “What do you mean?” His two older siblings are sitting there and he said, “I will no longer have to hear you say, ‘When I was your age, coming to the United States,’” because I came to the United States when I was thirteen.

Imagine every time one of them turns thirteen, they’ll be, “When I was your age.” He said, “I’m happy I’m now fourteen. I don’t have to hear you say that again.” What that tells me is it worked because it stuck with them. They may say it as a joke like I’m traumatizing them, but whatever works. As a mom, that’s your job to make it work for the kids and make the kid’s life better. The younger people have so much in their future. It’s our job to direct their energy and passion a certain way. They can have it so much better than us.

Kimchi: The key thing is, as parents, we need to realize that. We are their coach and their guide. If we are not proud to be a role model for them to follow up and assimilate, then who are we? They don’t have the role model because children watch every single thing from their parents. They don’t listen to what you say but they watch what you do. As parents, especially the first immigrant, first-generation, I highly recommend that you look at how you interact with your children and what you say to your children. Are you doing what you want them to do? I see a lot of Asian parents who are hypocrites. They tell the children to do one thing, but they’re not willing to do what they tell the children to do. That’s upsetting and it’s important to realize that. How do you want people to get in touch with you if they want to learn more about what you do?

Susan: They can find me on my website, BeyondYour2020Vision.com or you can find me as Dr. Susan Truong on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. Thank you for allowing me to have this opportunity to join both of you ladies.

Emily: People can find my website, AmericanDreamCoach.com and they can find me on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube as Coach Emily Letran. I would like to recommend for the readers to download an eBook. It’s ExceptionalLeverage.com/businessreport. It elaborates a little bit more about my story and it shares my strategies of growing my professional businesses. It has more about the personal challenges and it’s meant to serve as an inspiration for somebody to read that journey and see that maybe we have some similarities, whether it’s their parent or their own story. Also, to know that there’s a lot of things that we can do beyond what we’re doing if we just put our minds to it.

Kimchi: Thank you for your time and valuable input. I hope our readers are enjoying and get a lot of insights from this interview. Please subscribe and rank and review our show, our Asian Women of Power YouTube and Asian Women of Power podcast. Until next time. Live, Life, Loud.

Links Mentioned:

• Les Brown
• Sharon Lechter
• CEO Space
• WEF
• Brendon Burchard
• BeyondYour2020Vision.com
• Dr. Susan Truong – Facebook
• Instagram – Dr. Susan Truong
• Twitter – Dr. Susan Truong
• YouTube – Dr. Susan Truong
• AmericanDreamCoach.com
• Facebook – Emily Letran
• LinkedIn – Dr. Emily Letran
• Coach Emily Letran – YouTube
• ExceptionalLeverage.com/businessreport
• Asian Women of Power – YouTube

Episode Quotes

"My luggage was hope & faith."
"I can be a catalyst for others."
"Asking for help takes a lot of courage."
"It shows strength when you give back."
"Humility keeps us grounded."
"There is a fine line between arrogance and confidence."
"Winners never quit; quitters never win."
"In order to be successful, you have to ask for help."
"Hope and faith keep you persevere and keep you from giving up that easily."
"Whatever you want, if you want it that badly, there's no obstacle."

About Dr. Emily Letran

Dr. Emily Letran is a serial entrepreneur, CEO of multiple dental practices, and private coach to many professionals. As an international speaker, she has been on TEDx and shared stages with countless business leaders including Sharon Lechter (Co-Author Rich Dad Poor Dad), Dan Clark (Hall of Fame Speaker), Dr. Howard Farran (Dental Town), and Linda Miles (The Ultimate Mentor of Dentistry).

She has been featured on Dental Town, Global Woman, and See Beyond magazines. She is a contributing writer for Dental IQ and Dentistry Today. Dr. Letran is the Founder of Exceptional Leverage Inc., ACTION To WIN seminars, and the author of several books.

Contact [email protected] or phone 626-808-5762

About Dr. Susan Truong

After fleeing from the Vietnam War with her family in the mid-1970s and starting fresh in America, Dr. Susan Truong achieved the American dream. In doing so, she neglected the most important element in her life, her family. When she lost a younger brother to his untimely death at the age of 42, it was a huge wake-up call for her.

Today as a Visionary Strategist, she is passionate about inspiring others to live beyond 20/20 vision! Beyondyour2020vision.com